Update on 25 Sept 2008

Update on 25 Sept 2008

Dear All,

We have gone back to the acting president of DJROA Mr Toh and have proposed to help him solve some of his committee resignation issues.

Lim Ann Liang has volunteered to take over DJROA's Treasurer position. And Mr Yow Lop Siaw has volunteered to take over the Secretary position. Both positions became vacant following resignations. We believe this will be a win-win solution for our security initiative and also for the good of DJROA. I congratulate both of them for selflessly volunteering to take on those important and time consuming positions for the association and in so doing taking a bullet on the behalf of all of us for our security project. It is now up to the acting president to talk to his committee and get their consensus for the appointments. Let's wait and see what they say.

From day one of this project, we planned to tie up with DJROA for obvious reasons. We needed a credible body, help us open a bank account and facilitate the finances. And DJROA is the resident's association so it makes perfect sense. We can help them as much as we want them to help us. I hope they will see that by Lim and Yow volunteering it is a win-win for both parties. We should know from DJROA their decision by next week. All of us in my committee and I'm sure all of you are also looking forward to the implementation. The sooner the better for all our sake.

Meanwhile, crime continues to happen. Here's some emails that I received over the past few days:

(1) Tuesday 16 Sept 2008 -

"As discussed earlier, my Perdana V6 car parked outside the house gate along Jalan SS22/33 was driven away by a thief on last Tuesday morning.

I was woken by the sounding of my car alarm at around 5.15 am and peeped through the window upstairs to see the car being driven away very quickly followed immediately behind by a white Kancil car. The thief managed to dismantle the car alarm system. I was furious to see my car being stolen before my very own eyes and yet powerless to do anything.

The police came half an hour later and I reported the theft to Damansara Mutiara Pondok Police. But, until today, there is no news about the stolen car. I would not wish this type of theft happening to anyone and the inconvenience caused of a loss of use of the car. Therefore, I would strongly support the immediate installation of a Boomgate for security sake."

(2) Here's a past incident in our neighborhood just related to me -

"My last incident happened sometime in mid 2005. At 11.30pm while my husband, me n bb coming back from town. The mercz was tailing. My husband was not feeling well. But he still noticed that. He also noticed the Mercz stopped outside after we parked our car. But he thought it was our neighbors car, same Mercz silver, always stopping the same place while they waiting for the auto gate to open.

While my husband came out to unlock our front gate, one Malay (maybe Indon) guy holding the long parang pointing to my husband tell my husband to open the house door, and give the car. When he saw me with bb, then he says, just give the wallet enough. But my husband trying to save the old wallet, he got hurt. He horned the car, while the Malay guy and his partner just relax n walked slowly back to the Mercz-Kompressor, WJN 9398, 3 guys.

Then we reported to the DJROA, and police stn. 3 days later we saw the same car near Atria shops. We immediately call the police to check them. But it belongs to an old couple who are bank's lawyers n staying somewhere in Tmn Tun. They were there to have a nice claypot chicken rice."


Please rest assure that we are doing whatever we can to resolve the problems. We will not give up so easily on this project. Not after the amount of time and effort we have invested into it. Stay tuned.

Thank you.
John Chen
P.S. I'd also like to share with all of you some feedback I got as a result of my last week's email. See below. Thank you all for all your great feedback. I apologize I can't put them all into this email which is already pretty lengthy. ____________________________________________________

"Appreciate the update and the very good work put in by you and the Committee. I am quite sure the matter pertaining to the signatories can be worked out. Maybe there should be 3 approvals given before any payment is made by DJROA under this new account:-

1) You as President of this Committee (we need a name for the Comm ?)
2) Your Deputy /Asst or Treasurer representing this Committee
3) DJROA President

I am sad to hear that there are rumblings within DJROA resulting in the resignation of so many Committee members. Its will be a real setback for all residents here. Anyway, all the best and thanks again for the great effort."
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"Why can't the DJROA run the project? Just get enough committed members appointed into the DJROA and run it from there. Get a gated community 'sub committee' appointed. All this my project your project stuff is not going to get us anywhere, unless someone wants to start a splinter group. Focus on the task at hand, not wage some kind of tuft war. Afterall, this is a thankless job."
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"I have been waiting impatiently for the boom-gate to be implemented but from the sound of it, it will protract for a while if we, who are residents of DJ, are subjected to the 'constitution' of DJROA. Does it mean that those who did not pay the rm300 need not be subjected to it? My wife paid the membership without my knowledge (not that we cant afford it) and I still question her what do we get out of it. Her reply was use of amenities provided by DJROA?????????????

I stay along rd 32 and my back is the LDP.........guards on bikes that whisk by does me no good.......besides all they can see from the gate is my garage. I cannot understand the attitude of the current (or outgoing ) committee and their interests, personal or otherwise.

This is OUR project. WE PAY and we START.

I am sure accountability of the bank account would be in good hands since you and your committee volunteered to do this project in the first place. Trust is not an issue. As they say, fraud always needs 2 hands to clap.

Do not delay. Buy a 2 dollar company and change the name later. Open the account using your committee's volunteers as signatories. The DJROA bikers can still whisk around until the project is ready (or whenthe contributors security terms expire) We need not need to ask DJROA to refund the membership fee but for the fact that they are now the show stopper, would they be willing to be accountable for any mishaps that may occur to any of us who stay in our part of DJ? You have my vote to begin now."
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"Thank you for your response. Just tell me when and I will personally go round to help and collect for you. My friends in the neighbourhood are equally supportive."
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"Thank you for the update. I am surprised with this development with DJROA, we were not told from the start that we have to come under DJROA and have toopen the bank account under their name. I support the idea to form our own association and have our own bank account under our own association name managed by our own committee. In this way ourown committee will be accountable to our own members. We should also call a general meeting among all members who are interested to attend to elect thecommittee and for us to know who our elected committee members are."
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"As always I appreciate the news from you. Having read your message briefly please let me give my comments based on my experience serving in committees:

1. The DJROA is a voluntary organisation which is registered by the Registrar of Societies and it has a constitution which all members, being residents of DJ must follow.
2. Mr. Yew is right that he cannot simply open a bank account. It is not as easy as that.
3. Much as I appreciate your dedication and hard work you must understand that you need a legal status to open a bank account, collect and dispense money, You could run foul of the law if you have no legal status to collect money. You could operate under the umbrella of the DJROA as a say, Security Sub-Committee. This is easier and more convenient because the organisational structure and legal status are there. Alternatively, you could form a new Association, maybe to be called DJROA Security Services. This could be a registered business controlled by and your team or another organization registered under the Societies Act.Without any legal status no bank would allow an account to be opened for the purpose you have set out to achieve.
4. If I were you never consider a business which could give you lots of problems if you could not collect enough money for expenses and you are also personally liable for any debts or liabilities. You do not want to become a bankrupt just because you are rendering a service to residents out of the goodness of your heart.
5. The most practical thing to do is get the Association to set up a security sub-committee and co-opt you and interested residents into the committee. In this way everybody in the DJROA Commitee could work together and they are answerable for any shortcomings.
6. As a person who has dealings with businessmen I can assure you it is not easy to collect money. People may want to use a service but payment for it is another matter. How sure are you that residents will pay promptly for services? Have you prepared a budget? If you operate under the umbrella of the Association you can at least be assured of the support of an organisation to collect money from residents.Who is going to bill residents, collect money and pay for bills. If you hire a clerk what happened if that person abscond with money?
7. It will be a shame if your project could not take off because of all these problems. If the President and the other Committee members have resigned, depending on the Association's constitution, members could be co-opted into the Committee and office bearers appointed until the next AGM when they have to stand for election. After a new Committee is organised I suggest that an EGM be called to discuss your proposals for the running of the security. In this way residents cannot claim they were kept in the dark. I certainly want to know your costing.
8. You and your team members have done an excellent job and it is certainly not to make a living because there are better ways to make money. If you need my help to study the DJROA constitution please drop a copy at my mailbox at 40, Jln. SS22/35. I could also help you prepare a budget.
9. Do not forget that you need to go back again to residents for signature and they want to know your budget and your proposed billing. If you are not transparent you may not get the required 85% support.
10. You certainly need the blessings of the Association for the project to take off. We will give you the support but you must follow the legal procedure because we do want to see that your project is successful. It is also good for our peace of mind.

Pardon me for taking the liberty to share my experience with you. I am sad that we all could not work together because of misunderstanding."
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"Thank you for the latest information. I will give my full support to form our own association. It may take some time to form but once it is formed I believe we can run things better without referring to the DJROA for any action. As Mr Yew Cheng Hoe and some of his committee members have resigned, DJROA itself may have to settle their own problems before they can have the time for us. Moreover we have the problem of the treasurer not taking up further responsibilities."
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"It is never easy to be involved in any organization on voluntary basis and its a thankless job. Its no different for DJROA and our "Boomgate project" for that matter, and that's why I salute you guys who have sacrifice yourselves to do common good. Any organization is as good as its committee members as common members are usually followers and don't give a damn.As for starting a new association, I doubt it will get the blessing of MBPJ as we are all under DJROA.

One option is to create "zones" within DJROA e.g. Zone 1 - area next to Petronas 2 with existing boomgate, Zone 2 - our Area, Zone 3 - SS22A etc. DJROA would have to grant some autonomy to the zones for projects such as ours. By the way, how did our neighbors next to Petronas 2 implemented their boomgate project?"
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"Appreciate the explanation. Anyway, DJROA is still the best vehicle to carry on with the project. Otherwise what is DJROA for? Residents' association but not working in the interest of the residents. If the present committee not in favour, let have EGM if necessary. I agree with your earlier approach that this project to be carried out by a sub-committee under DJROA, in Malay we call it 'Jawatankuasa Kecil'.

You know the religious school at the round about in Damansara Utama. It is strictly a people project financed by Muslims contribution from this area. Annual operating cost is more than RM500,000. And has been there for the past 15 yrs. So for a project that will cost RM300,000 is not that scary to handle. Whoever in the committee for the gated project will need to work harder to bring DJROA together, only then you will get the full of support of every residents."
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"Thank you for the numerous emails whereby you kept us informed about the progress of the ' boomgate project'. One of the reasons for my initial reluctance to give support for the project was the question of cost. I am a government pensioner and I am not willing sign up, if a big portion of my pension is going towardsprovision of security to myself. In fact I sounded the question of cost to the gentleman who came to promote the idea initially. Therefore kindly let me know in writing the actual commitment I am required to make before I will agree to put my signature on any document you will come up with."
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"Starting a new association will take a long time and will only further delay the setting up of the boomgate. If the DJROA treasurer is on the way out, why don't we see whether the new treasurer would be open to helping us. In the meantime, we would need to get the support of the acting president and the other remaining committee members if they are going to remain on the DJROA committee for a while. Perhaps DJROA should see your committee as a sub-committee of the association.

So long as the accounts are audited by an independent auditor and are made available to those who have signed up, there should not be any major issues with the disbursement of funds. Incidentally, how did SS22/37 set up their boomgate without going through DJROA?

Benefits of joining DJROA (beyond the offerings of security guards) should be made clear to residents. If there is clear value in joining, there should be no issue on residents joining as DJROA members."
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"Thanks for update. Hmmm...given DJROA concerns regarding the extension of his liability, which I feel is somewhat unwarranted (they signed up for this, it clearly within their scope & the committee members should know better). if DJROA is not willing to open a bank account,....I suggest we open our own bank account .. call it DJROA II or whatever :), KIV this will pressure DJROA (for better of worse) as they will lose a large chunk of their monthly fee. IMHO we should not be indemnifying DJROA, after all we are/will be part of their responsibilities and thus indemnification would be counter to the original objective of accountability."
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"Maybe we should just form another association and not join DJROA. This would put pressure on them to be more flexible. In short if the residents abandon them, what would DJROA do?"
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"Despite all the headache, you have done an excellent job. May be this is just a suggestion. We can agree we are part of the Djora resident association. But this security account is operated independently from the djora account and should have a separate account. May be call it Damansara Jaya SS22 zone (area see map) security account .We might need a letter sign by both committee heads from Djora and the DJ SS22 security zone that this account is not part of the Djora account and is fully responsible by DJ SS22 zone committee....please do what is suitable and you have my full support."
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Update on 19 Sept 2008

Update on 19 Sept 2008

Dear all,

My apologies for the silence over the past 2+ week. On one hand we had made some progress so that's good. But on the other hand we also encountered more spanners thrown at us this time from DJROA. They are now reluctant to help us, will tell you more in later part of this email. So it has been challenging and frustrating weeks..

First the good news. The committee have discussed and decided on the companies that we will be working with.

(1) Metro Security Services Sdn Bhd - They provide Napalese guards. BU 7 & 10 are currently using their services and feedback from the Chairman of BU 7&10 is that they have been reliable, and there's lots of synergies. They have the relevant experience and have been accommodating to our negotiations and requests. Details will be revealed later as there might be changes to our implementation plans because of DJROA. They will need 3 weeks lead time from the time we give them the go ahead. We want to get them in as soon as possible. Can't do that until we have collected the monies from all of you to get this project started.

(2) West Mark Alarm & Automation Sdn Bhd - They will provide the boomgate and CCTV hardware and software. Their prices was the lowest, response and service was the best. The MD himself presented and negotiated with us. Dealing with the decision maker made things move faster and smoother. We have full confidence that they can deliver on their promises. And in future if we want to add in security card system, they can provide that too. However, implementation of boomgate and CCTV will done in stages. Priority is to get the security guards at the post first.

(3) MBPJ - They have given us conditional approval for our guard houses. The condition is that we need to get from all of you your signature to show them that we do have the 85% supporters. So what that means is that we will need to go back to each of you to get your signatures. We will do that together at the same time with the collection of the money from each of you. The guard house will be the 4ftx4ftx7ft container type for a start. And in future, once this scheme is successful and you guys feel that we need to upgrade to a permanent and nicer guardhouse and willing to pay for it, then we will do it.

(4) How much will be the Monthly fees? - Well, now with the spanner thrown at us by DJROA, we may need to revise the amount again. We had already worked out an amount that we think would be palatable to all of us and it's actually a little lower than what we had projected. Now we will have to rethink that amount. Please bear with us while we try to resolve the bank account issue first.

Now for the bad news. The president of DJROA Mr Yew Cheng Ho, his secretary and the treasurer have all resigned as of Wednesday (2 days ago). I heard 2 other committee members too have resigned. That's 5 of them! So they are now left with 6 committee members. His reason for resigning is personal and I won't go into the details. If you are interested you go find out yourself.

Our last meeting with DJROA was last night where the Acting President Mr Toh presided over it. The treasurer (who had resigned but will stay on until a replacement is nominated) was there too. Six of us from our committee and two from the SS22/22A security committee was there. The meeting was suppose to have been for us to get back to DJROA if we agree or not to the conditions that Mr Yew had set on us, before they are willing to help us to open a separate bank account for all of us to bank in the monies to and manage the payment.

We were there to revert to them that we are willing to accept their conditions and we wanted to know how fast they can open the bank account for us and give us the name of the account. The key condition is that we must all sign up and be members of DJROA. That was what we were struggling with to accept. However, it turned out in the meeting that the treasurer was very reluctant to help us even after we inform that we accept all their conditions.

His point was that DJROA will not have a say as to how the money will be spent as it is our project and it will be managed by our committee, not theirs. The check signatories must be from DJROA according to the constitution. His concern is that if we were to commit fraud and abuse of the funds, he does not want to held responsible what so ever. Our argument is that the funds usage and approvals will be by a committee and not by any one person. We will have checks and balances to make sure of that, like with any respectable company. Corporate governance is just as important to us too. Infact we are even willing to give DJROA an indemnity letter to absolve DJROA from any liabilities or legal law suits should it arise. He was still not satisfied with it. We told him that when the people volunteered to take on any committee position, it will naturally come with certain responsibilities and he should accept that and find a way to minimize the risk.

Mr Yow from our committee even volunteered his services to be the secretary of DJROA. And we also suggested that we will offer 1 person from our committee and 1 person from SS22/22A to be on the treasury committee, to take over from him when he leaves. Mr Toh said he has to put that suggestion to his committee to decide and will revert by mid of next week. As the meeting was heading no where we left. All the 6 of us from our committee and 2 from SS22/22A's committee left feeling very disappointed with the outcome.

I have now called for a committee meeting this Sunday at 4pm to brainstorm as to what can be other possible ways that we can get this project moving. The most important stumbling block now is to get a bank account opened so that we can go to you to collect the money and get this project off the ground. We may now end up not working with DJROA but go the way of starting our own association. If any of you have any suggestions, please email them to me and I will bring it up with the committee.

Its been 3 long months since we started this project and we've come so far. We will need to keep the momentum up. We do not want all our efforts to go to waste. Please bear with us while we try to find an amicable way to solve this problem. We are all equally disappointed with the impasse and assure you that we will do our best to find the best solution to this. I will keep you informed on the outcome.

Thank you.
John Chen